Birth & Accession According to legend, Niall was left on the ground by his mother Cairenn Chasdub as she was afraid of what Mongfind, the first wife of Eochaid Mugmedon, would do to the baby. Fergus and Ailill refuse and return empty-handed. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. September 10, 2020. Although these studies are not coordinated with each other and are ongoing, it is already apparent that not all of these lineages are related to each other within Niall's timeframe. Copyright Claire Santry 2008-2023 Irish-Genealogy-Toolkit.com. But while he is away on a tour of his lands in Scotland, Mongfind's sons seize Ireland. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. The less However, I belong to the R-L20 haplogroup, which is more common in continental Europe, and not Ireland where R-L21 is dominant. The geneticists estimated that about 23 million men bear this haplotype. Niall was famed for his raids on Britain along with his brothers and sons. I am not sure if his father Eochy Moyvone is the same person as shown im other sources namely Echu Mugmedn, so I have shown both. Niall of the Nine Hostages. Cookie Notice powerful people who controlled an area loosely centred on present-day Armagh Of their Irish sample, the geneticists found that 21 percent of men from north-western Ireland, 8 percent from all of Ireland, a substantial percentage of men from western and central Scotland, and about 2 percent of men from New York bore the same Y-chromosome haplotype. Most of the Milesian kings ruled from Tara. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. [7] However, the early annals record the activities of his sons between 429 and 516, an implausibly long time-span for a single generation, leading scholars like Kathleen Hughes[5] and Francis J. Byrne[4]:pp. Perhaps more myth than man, Niall of the Nine Hostages is said to have been a King of Tara in northwestern Ireland in the late 4th century C.E. Often this information is passed down through family stories, for instance, my mother claims to be a quarter Irish and so Im apparently one-eighth Irish. Abruptly, the tale then has Niall appearing before an assembly of Pictish bards in Scotland, where he is killed by an arrow shot by Eochaid from the other side of the valley. 4.00. Some clarity would be welcome if anyone has done extensive research on this pedigree. The only company that does Y-dna tests is FTdna (FamilyTreeDNA). He was one of the greatest of the High Kings of Ireland in prehistoric days, but one of the least known to modern historians. Sithchenn takes the brothers to the smith, who makes them weapons, and sends them out hunting. Just how extensive an area he may have dominated is not recorded but he [5] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379405,[6] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This "loathly lady" motif appears in myth and folklore throughout the world. ), "Echtra Mac nEchach Muigmedin: The Adventures of the Sons of Eochaid Muigmedin", in, This page was last edited on 17 February 2023, at 06:56. Birth of Conall Gulban mac Nill, King of Tirconal, Birth of Cairbre mac Nill, High King of Ireland, 126th HIgh KIng of Ireland, Greatest High King of Ireland, aka Nial Mor NAOIGHIALLACH `of the Nine Hostages'; 1st King (but reckoned 126th MONARCH) of IRELAND; conquered nine countries (incl. Its guidance will be useful to any researcher of Irish heritage, but especially for the target Irish-American researcher who's struggling to work back to Ireland from their immigrant ancestor. ), told me that Im a sub-type of a lineage called H6a (specifically H6a1b). He also led successful raids against Roman Britain & Scotland (some Granted my great great great great paternal ancestor was unknown, and his son took his mothers name (which is my last name). Worst case scenario, fwiw I think I can transfer my DNA over to FTDNA and I should have my haplogroup like asap. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. One of In Irish Kings and High Kings (Dublin, 1973), John Francis Byrne prefers a much earlier date for Niall's death and also suggests the Three Collas never existed. an outstanding beauty, dressed in purple (the colour of royalty) and wearing Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. least 12 sons. Killed in Battle. Crimthann returns to Ireland intending to give battle. prevalent in the genes of men with surnames that have long been linked to passed from father to son. Editors note: This post has been edited to reflect changes to the 23andMe ancestry product. [2]:70, A legendary account of Niall's birth and early life is given in the possibly-11th-century tale Echtra mac nEchach Muimedin ("The adventure of the sons of Eochaid Mugmedn"). Crimthann refuses to drink it unless she does too; they both drink, and both die. [7] Another version has Mongfind try to poison Niall, but she takes the poison herself by mistake. [7], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. It was in one of these Gallic expeditions that the lad Succat, destined under his later name of Patrick to be the greatest and noblest figure Ireland ever knew, was taken in a sweep of captives, carried to Ireland and to Antrim, there to herd the swine of the chieftain, Milcho. century. [4] The later Annals of the Four Masters dates his reign to 379405,[5] and the chronology of Geoffrey Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn to 368395. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded.[4]:70. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. [27], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. The Munstermen renew the battle, capture Ailill and cut him to pieces, and war continues between Munster and Connacht for many years. In Based on U Nill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450.[4]. There is a large community of M222 men and a very interesting "family tree" of sorts is emerging as these men get into Y-DNA testing. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. Brin rules the province of Connacht, but Fiachrae makes war against him. The story then becomes confused. 23andMe will give you the basic results for Ydna but . Because the numbers of men 7879 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. and probably less reliable, story is that Niall took a hostage from each of When Maximus and his Roman legions were, in consequence of the barbarian pressure upon the Continental Roman Empire, withdrawing from Britain, Niall, with his Irish hosts and Pictish allies, treaded upon their hurrying heels." Boyle, Bradley, Campbell, Cannon, Coleman, Connor, Devlin, Doherty, Donnell, The Annals of Inisfallen date his death before 382, and the Chronicon Scotorum to 411. The baby is rescued and brought up by a poet called Torna. became High King. Fiachrae is granted a minor royal line two of his descendants, Nath and Ailill Molt, will be High Kings. bronze slippers. iStock. It turns out that maternal and paternal lines can offer some clues about Irish ancestry. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Hughes says "Niall himself must have died not before the middle of the fifth century". In it, Eochaid Mugmedn, the High King of Ireland, had five sons: Four, Brin, Ailill, Fiachrae and Fergus, by his first wife Mongfind, sister of the king of Munster, Crimthann mac Fidaig; and a fifth, Niall, by his second wife Cairenn Chasdub, daughter of Sachell Balb, king of the Saxons. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. His men carry his body home, fighting seven battles on the way, and his foster-father Torna dies of grief. Fiachrae and Ailill then make war against Crimthann's son Eochaid, king of Munster. He earned his name, Niall of the nine hostages, by being able to subdue his enemies by taking members of their family and refusing to give them back until they admitted defeat. If instead, I want to see if I have Irish ancestry on my fathers side (even though my father has never claimed to be Irish! haplotype originated at least several centuries before Niall is claimed to have lived, so his descendants would only represent a minority of men in this group. [2] The chronology of Keating's Foras Feasa ar irinn broadly agrees, dating his reign from 368-395, and associating his raiding activities in Britain with the kidnapping of Saint Patrick (ca. In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. Then Niall, showing strength of character, even in his early youth, took his mother from her menial task, and restored her to her place. an unknown number of generations from Conn Cadcathlach aka Conn of the Hundred [13], While Niall is high king, his brothers establish themselves as local kings. Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. 78-79 to conclude that the events of the later half of the 5th century have been extended backwards to accommodate as early a date as possible for the arrival of Saint Patrick, with the effect of pushing Niall back up to half a century. Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. [15 ], There are various versions of how Niall gained his epithet Nogallach. Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. That is the great flame that Patrick was to kindle, and which was to expand and grow, ever mounting higher and spreading farther, year by year, for three hundred years. He died in a raid on Roman France in 405 AD. Niall of the Nine Hostages. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. The story then becomes confused. have been accepted, even expected, in Celtic circles from an important "When Scots came thundering from the Irish shores. Niall of the Nine Hostages was around 50+ generations ago. 'The Gathering is a reunion of clans so to speak. He then kills Laidchenn by throwing a stone which lodges in his forehead. Business, Economics, and Finance. Niall exiles him to Scotland. and tr. Only Niall kisses her properly, and she is revealed as a beautiful maiden, the Sovereignty of Ireland. Several testing companies can do this test: Of note to Family Tree DNA customers, this signature is found in .6 of one percent of the entire family Tree DNA database. We would expect to find a large concentration of Niall's descendants there, as the Southern U Nill were dominant in that region, but we do not. It is now more commonly referred to as the Northwest Irish/Lowland Scots variety. She gives birth as she is drawing water, but out of fear of Mongfind, she leaves the child on the ground, exposed to the birds. Niall and his dynasty. history of Ireland In Ireland: Early political history County Mayo residents were fascinated to learn that there is Viking DNA in their makeup, a fact . He and his descendants continued to dominate much of Ireland Then Niall makes war against Leinster, and peace is concluded on the condition that Eochaid is handed over. and our Supposedly slain in the English Channel or in Scotland, his descendants were the most powerful rulers of Ireland until the 11th . The findings of the study showed that within the north-west of Ireland as many as 21% of men (8% in the general male population) were concluded to have a common male-line ancestor who lived roughly 1,700 years ago. [7], The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Famous descendants include Niall's great-great-grandson Saint Columba, Saint Mel Ruba, the Kings of Ailech, the Kings of Tir Eogain, and the Kings of Tr Conaill. Within our second panel of markers the most distinctive difference from the R1b Modal is the 15,16,16,17 at DYS 464. Furthermore, the paper examined only 17 STR loci, which are not a reliable means of verifying descent, as SNPs, which define haplogroups and subclades, would be. More recently 23andMe redefined it as R-P311 from an early ancestor associated with group M269. Descended from Conaire and a daughter of the High King Conn of the. The Spread of DNA From "Niall of the Nine Hostages". strongest associations are with the surnames traditionally linked to the Ui While Brian saved the cariots from the fire, Ailill a shield and a sword, Fiachra the old forge trough, and Fergus only a bundle of firewood, Niall carried out the bellows, the sledges, the anvil, and anvil block - saved the soul of the forge, and saved the smith from ruin. [5], Although it is anachronistic for Niall's mother to have been a Saxon, O'Rahilly argues that the name Cairenn is derived from the Latin name Carina, and that it is plausible that she might have been a Romano-Briton. Niall succeeds to the High Kingship, and Brin becomes his second in command. You absolutely do not understand. Annals of the Kingdom of Ireland by the Four Masters, from the Earliest Period to the Year 1616, eDIL: electronic Dictionary of the Irish Language, Aided Chrimthainn meic Fhidaig 7 Tr Mac Echach Muigmedin, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Niall_of_the_Nine_Hostages&oldid=1139858317. mutations (changes) occur infrequently but, when they do, they help to Trinity College study, nor do the researchers conclude that he ever existed. The boy eventually escaped, but returned to Ireland as St. Patrick. Niall was said to have ruled over Tara, but modern historians think it more likely that Tara was founded by Niall's decendents, and that Niall himself actually set up his kingdom at Uisnech, another "royal hill". Their father, who was looking on (and who, say some, designedly caused the fire, to test his sons), observed with interest Neill's distinctiveness of character, his good sense and good judgment. Sometime after 379 (when he became king of Ulster), he forced the other kings of Ireland to accept him as overlord when his sons Eoghan and Conal (possibly others as well) overthrew the Ulidian kingdom in the north. Also known as Niall of the Nine Hostages.. Their 5 Reply [deleted] 4 yr. ago Oh, got it. The little Irish (Scotic) colony in that part of Alba just opposite to Antrim had gradually been growing in numbers, strength, and prestigeuntil they excited the jealousy and enmity of the Picts, who tried to crush them. [10 ] nna's son Eochaid is named as Niall's killer in all sources, although the circumstances vary. Why not list William the Conqueror or someone else? [3] O'Rahilly suggests that the nine hostages were from the kingdom of the Airgialla (literally "hostage-givers"), a satellite state founded by the Ui Nill's conquests in Ulster, noting that the early Irish legal text Lebor na gCeart ("The Book of Rights") says that the only duty of the Airgialla to the King of Ireland was to give him nine hostages. After reading through their ancestry reports from 23andMe, customers can now browse Airbnb homes and experiences in their native countriesand plan vacations as unique as their DNA. Moore et al. There are claims that Cormac mac Art, a leading figure in the Fionn cycle, established a sumptuous court at Tara and a lavish festival was also regularly celebrated at Samhain, on 1 November. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. Discord: https://discord.gg/3Jjc3GdmtB, Press J to jump to the feed. Lots of the Irish nobility fled to Spain and then on to Rome in the early 1600s. Battles, who may have lived in the middle of the 2nd century and was reputedly Moore et al. Only Niall kisses her properly, and she is revealed as a beautiful maiden, the Sovereignty of Ireland. She grants Niall not only water but the kingship for many generationstwenty-six of his descendants will be High Kings of Ireland. [8 ], In another story, the succession is not settled when Eochaid dies, and Mongfind's brother Crimthann takes the high kingship. Niall releases Fiachrae, who becomes king of Connacht and Niall's right hand man. He estimated that two million to three million. Niall's legendary military skill was on a par with his sexual prowess. [3]:81, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. See related article at Florida Irish Heritage Center. Press J to jump to the feed. [13 ], In January 2006, geneticists at Trinity College, Dublin suggested that Niall may have been the most fecund male in Irish history. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall's legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Are you familiar with the Irish 'Wild Geese'? [26], Perhaps even more problematic is the dearth of M222 lineages in Midlands samples. 76-78[6]:p. 220, Niall is placed in the traditional list of High Kings of Ireland. What is a paternal line? Niall makes war in Europe as far as the Alps, and the Romans send an ambassador to parlay with him. [8] Death, The Lebor Gabla renn says there was war between Niall and nnae Cennsalach, king of Leinster, over the brama or cow-tribute first imposed on Leinster by Tuathal Techtmar. Geneticists have dated this This goes for most large haplogroups. Brin defeats Fiachrae and hands him over as a prisoner to Niall, but Fiachrae's son Nath continues the war and eventually kills Brin. The Eochaidh who shot the fatal arrow had been King of Leinster, was banished to Alba by Niall, and accompanied Gabhran, Scots Kings #5, chief of the Dal Riada, when Gabhran took troops to France to support an expedition of Niall. with this signature is so high, the patriarch must have been prolific. The saga "The Death of Niall of the Nine Hostages" says that he received five hostages from the five provinces of Ireland (Ulster, Connacht, Leinster, Munster and Meath), and one each from Scotland, the Saxons, the Britons and the Franks. Patricus later came to be known as St. Patrick. the modern surnames associated with the Ui Neill include (with or without the O "In the fifth century, the place was occupied by Niall of the Nine Hostages and it was here that his pagan son, King Laoghaire, was supposed to have been confronted by St. Patrick. The Trinity College study also found that about one in ten men in the west the first high king of Ireland. He was killed in his sleep while aboard his royal galley. Joined then by the Irish in Alba, he marched against the Picts, overcame them, took hostages from them and had Argyle and Cantire settled upon the Albanach Irish. Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Tom Peete Cross & Clark Harris Slover (eds.). By the 8th century, the Ui Nills held power in the north west where they were known as the Northern Ui Nill, and also in the Midlands where they are known as the Southern Ui Nill. He conquered the Uliad aristocracy, which ruled in Ulster, and by this victory and subsequent consolidation of power was able to found a dynasty, the Ui Neill, which gave rise to the O'Neill clan. provide water, but she wants a kiss in return. After this, Tara's importance appears to have declined.". The story The same area of Ireland has previously been the subject of anthropological studyand has shown a strikingly high percentage of men from Haplogroup R1b (98%) versus 90% in southeast Ireland. Because of that, the identification of M222 with Niall's descendants is "difficult to justify". Keating has Eochaid shoot Niall from the opposite bank of the river Loire during his European campaign. Variations of this story are told of the earlier Irish High King Lugaid Laigde, in Arthurian legend one of the most famous versions appears in both Geoffrey Chaucer's The Wife of Bath's Tale and the related Gawain romance, The Wedding of Sir Gawain and Dame Ragnell and in John Gower's Middle English poem Confessio Amantis. The geneticists estimated that there are about 2-3 million males alive today who descend in the male-line from Niall. Niall Nogallach (Irish pronunciation: [%CB%88ni%CB%90%C9%99l noilx], Old Irish "having nine hostages"),[1] or in English, Niall of the Nine Hostages, was a prehistoric Irish king, the ancestor of the U Nill family that dominated Ireland from the 6th to the 10th century. 390-461). Niall chains Eochaid to a standing stone, and sends nine warriors to execute him, but Eochaid breaks his chain and kills all nine of them with it. Modern surnames tracing their ancestry to Niall include (O')Neill, (O')Gallagher, (O')Boyle, (O')Doherty, O'Donnell, Connor, Cannon, Bradley, O'Reilly, Flynn, (Mc)Kee, Campbell, Devlin, Donnelly, Egan, Gormley, Hynes, McCaul, McGovern, McLoughlin, McManus, McMenamin, Molloy, O'Kane, O'Rourke and Quinn. You might consider getting a Y-DNA test to see if you can learn more.